Humanship Podcast w/ Nick @ImpactHub MSP

The first-ever episode of humanship, the new podcast from Impact Hub Minneapolis-St. Paul! As is fitting, we’re starting things off on a note of humanness by talking with TJ McMullen. TJ is a keen observer and experiencer of life who is always exploring the intersection between his work and the notion that he’s part of something much larger. Here are a few shorthand notes on the story arc of our conversation:

TJ’s business website: clipdifferent.com

FULL TRANSCRIPT

Nick: Hey everybody! Welcome to the first episode of the new Minneapolis St. Paul Impact Hub podcast. It’s — We’re gonna call this podcast, Humanship. And, the whole idea with it is really to — well it’s to be goofy and it’s to kinda fly by the seat of our pants. So, I have not thought a whole ton about what’s gonna happen here. We’re just gonna let it unfold and it’s gonna be what it is. But the whole idea with it is to, talk about what it, what it’s like to be human in say spaces that often aren’t human and talking about that kind of in the context of entrepreneurship and business. But there’s a lot of room for expansion to see where this ship goes. So today is the first episode and where gonna start things off with a conversation. I’m gonna probably do another episode down the road a little bit giving you a more concise, potted explanation of what this whole podcast is gonna be but we’ll see when that happens. It’ll happen when it happens. But today where talking with TJ McMullen and TJ is a long time member of Impact Hub. And I’ve known TJ for…I guess a while. And TJ is just a compassionate, awesome human being who’s down to earth and loves listening, loves talking about his work, loves a story. And he’s just really good at being a human with other humans. Which is something we often overlook and so thinking about who to talk to for this first episode, TJ was one of the first people that came to mind. So TJ, welcome.

TJ: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: Yeah.

TJ: I think it’s kinda funny that I mean, how this whole came up. It was a conversation that you know, you and I were just kinda sitting there, talking, and talking like we do.

Nick: Mmmh

TJ: Talking about, what, I don’t even remember exactly what we were talking about.

Nick: Human things.

TJ: Right, right. And that’s kinda where the conversation I was going right. When you can slow down enough and just share.

Nick: Yeah.

TJ: What is, and you made reference yesterday at the townhall meeting that, I believe it was at the townhall meeting or maybe it was at the one million cups. Rita said there’s, there’s more than just the work.

Nick: Yeah

TJ: It’s what’s behind it. Let’s peel it back. That’s kinda what this, what, kinda part of the vision of what this is all about. Where it’s like

Nick: Right.

TJ: Let’s slow down. Let’s talk about what the human piece of this.

Nick: Mmmh

TJ: All this work, right. And I think that, you know our conversations would go there often, ‘preciate it.

Nick: Yeah. We’ll I find those to be so valuable. I mean I come to the Impact Hub a lot of days and I, I actually come not expecting to get a lot, a lot of work done.

TJ: Right.

Nick: Which I probably shouldn’t broadcast that out there. But that’s just for me. And I, because it’s, it’s this whole — I shouldn’t say that though. I mean it’s this whole other form of productivity where I come here and so much of my time here is spent in conversation with people. And it’s, it’s still very productive but it’s, it’s really changed my mindset of what productive is. And there’s this really big piece, this important piece of human connection that, that I’m starting to see as profoundly productive but we don’t you know, talk about that as being productive a lot of times.

TJ: How is it, how—how do you bridge that gap between the traditional productive like, check the box off, you know kinda stuff? Where it’s like, you know, I gotta get my stuff done, my work done and productive in the sense that, ooh! I had three conversations today that were maybe good, maybe not, whatever, but it, it triggered something deeper that it was like ooh, those are delicious.

Nick: Yeah.

TJ: You know? That’s a different pro productivity. I mean, what–what is that?

Nick: Yeah, yeah. It, it is a very different productivity and it feels life giving? You know, it’s a life giving productivity. Not to say that other productivity types aren’t. But there is a sense of like when I walk away from here, I feel like, I feel like I’ve been seen. You know? And I’ve seen other people. And I mean not in like a really deep sense. You know? It’s like I see, I think what happens here a lot is that, to me, but also to a lot of people is that we come in here and we see people for what they’re doing and the work that they’re doing but it’s more than that like we see people as people. And, you know, it’s like people are interested in getting to know others for who they are, not just for the work that they’re doing.

TJ: And what they’re doing. I mean it’s like, what, what, what is. Okay I’m, I just had a conversation with a lady and she’s starting this little business about these temporary homes or these permanent homes that are smaller and all these kinda things and it’s like, what got you to get to that point where you’re doing that? It’s like were, when you tell your stories, what is it that gets that person to that point of, ooh I wanna start telling stories, I wanna share that piece. What can you, said that, wow, words like when I come to the hub, there’s so much of that. It’s like there’s all these people that you have these conversations with and everybody has their unique talents and their things that they’re working on and it’s like what makes them wanna do what they do? What is it in their life, what is it in their story, you know? Those are nice.

Nick: Yeah

TJ: And they happen a lot here at the hub.

Nick: Yeah

TJ: I mean that’s like, oh, woah. It’s like, you know. There’s so many conversations and it’s like this little community within the community of all these people tryna do better. It’s like tryna make a social impact.

Nick: Yeah and that’s, it does happen a lot. And that’s actually one reason I wanted to bring you on for the first episode. It’s like you’re really good about that. You know? I feel like talking to you, there’s – there’s what you do but there’s also like, you know, your life. And it seems to me talking I’m sure like it’s always different on the inside, right? But, like there’s this integration that you have that’s really unique. And the, the approach that you bring to your work is also the approach that you bring to your life and to interactions. How do you, is that something that resonates with you? How do you see that play out in your, in your world?

TJ: How do I see what play on? I mean, that approach? Or that? I mean, I don’t…

Nick: Does it feel integrated to you?

TJ: I don’t know if, I don’t separate it. I don’t know how to separate it. I don’t know how to like, I feel like I just kinda do what I do personally. And I mean honestly, it’s like, you know for, when I first started coming to the hub, I like the social impact piece. But I was before, and working with Clip Different it’s fed this piece within me that I didn’t know was so strong? But it kinda like, it kinda started when I came to the hub way back when and I like the social impact piece. I like the idea of what I do in my work is there’s more to it than just collecting a paycheck and obviously money is important, things are important, all that stuff. It, it serves a purpose but you know, I like the bigger picture and not knowing exactly how to put my finger on it kinda stuff always. But I know like with Clip Different, that’s, that’s fed something within me that I knew was always there but I didn’t have an outlet to let that kinda flourish.

Nick: Ah. So what does that outlet look like and how does it enable you to flourish? How does it enable you to be you?

TJ: It’s — how does that allow me to be me? A lot of our fingernail clippers, they serve people that for whatever reason have a challenge cutting their nails.

Nick: Mmmhh….I suppose I should just give like a really brief, I’ll give a brief synopsis of what Clip Different is kinda of in the notes. 

TJ: Okay.

Nick: But, so you make automated fingernail clippers?

TJ: Yup. Automatic fingernail clippers and they work well for everybody, you now, myself included. They work, you know, I don’t like fingernails all over my house and so I like it with my kids and I so, ‘cause it’s easy way to contain. The devices work extremely well if, for whatever reason, holding a fingernail clipper is a challenge. It can be a challenge, you know, whether it’s from somebody’s born with, you now, one arm, limb different, had accident, lost an arm, whatever it is, arthritis, MS, Park..Parkinsons. Whatever, whatever the reason is, whether it’s by nature or by the environment or whatever it is somebody has a hard time holding their, holding their fingernail clippers and cutting their, cutting their nails. Growing up in a house where my mom was in a wheelchair that I didn’t know any different. Also, at the same time I knew that there was a difference. I knew like walking in the room, I notice when there’s a lip, in the, in the, in the doorway because I know, even, I mean my mom’s passed and it’s been a long time but I still recognize little things, right? And it’s, you know, I just recognize those kinda things and it’s, this is giving like an avenue for where I can see people that appreciate the independence. Or appreciate you know, something like a device, what this device offers. That little piece of independence in a way that most people, myself included, for a long time just kinda glossed over. It’s like…

Nick: Yeah, yeah

TJ: How do you cut your nails? Well you don’t ask that question unless you have a challenge or somebody you love has a challenge.

Nick: Yeah. I feel like there’s a lot of things like that, that we don’t normally think about.

TJ: Right, right, right

Nick: But are actually really important to other people, you know? (Let’s just get this a little bit closer) But, so yeah do you wanna – can you keep going on the train of how that, like doing that work and then bringing that in a larger philosophy into the rest of your life? How that allows you to be you?

TJ: Say that again.

Nick: So how does – so the work that you’re doing, how does it – how do you feel like you get to be you? In doing that work. How does it allow you to be you?

TJ: I – there’s a lot of energy behind what I do and what that is, is I’m helping – I’m helping people and I get to help people and not knowing – not knowing necessarily that that was a part of what I wanted to do or –  I mean I always knew, right? I mean it’s like , I’ve always had a soft heart but not knowing how to do that and make a career out of it or make business out of it or make a you know – before I was working with Clip Different, I always say I’m a connector. So I use technology, web-based stuff and connected my clients better with their clients while a lot of it was kind of just like work, but what I got into – what – what got me into that business was I would go into little shops ‘cause I like to explore and I’d find little nitches and like be like you know like a cool little coffee shop or a neat little bakery that makes something very well or whatever it was and it’s like you gotta let people know about this coolness – I mean what you – you know,like a little trinket shop or whatever it might have been and so I would, I figured out like, using technology, how to put people on the map so-to-speak before like local SEO and maps and all that kinda stuff it’s like how do you -how does– how do you let the internet know about your goodness or your-what your – your little slice of the pie.

Nick: So it’s really highlighting the story piece

TJ: Right, right
Nick: I mean, when I talk to you, it’s very evident that you put a lot of emphasis on story you know  whether you know it or not. But like – 

TJ: I don’t know it

Nick: But even in talking about your work, you know , it’s always like “Yeah I met this other guy – this guy the other day and he’s telling me this story about you know how he lost a limb and –“

TJ: Right

Nick: “-and you know I brought out the Clip Different – fingernail clipper and like he was able to have this exchange with him” and it’s like so much about that interpersonal connection for you and it’s like that’s cool for me like that’s inspiring for me to hear.

TJ: Right and it’s I- one part of – you know an important piece of this and maybe about me is like that it’s not about me. I don’t want it about me and I don’t like talking about me it’s – I’m boring. The stories that this device helps, the people that this product helps – that is exciting. That’s fun, that’s the gentleman that you’re talking about. He raced mountain bikes; he plays basketball. He does all these kind of things, he just happen to be born with one arm.  Right? And he actually happens to also design and help Nike design their adaptive gear for people and when he learned about this product he’s like- he just happen to be in the booth next to us at this event and he’s like “You don’t understand. My mom cut my nails until I was in college” and I felt the depth of what he was saying and that is a cool story like “Oh this device kinda helped him” ever so slightly and there’s a lot of little stories like that so it’s less about- it has nothing to do with me I just happen to be in that – in that moment or I might be able to share that with him and feel that energy where it’s like I – and that’s like a lot of the conversations it’s, it’s – and I appreciate that – that very so much about you Nick where it’s like you capture stories. You get into that meatiness. That of why of somebody does something. Or why – what is the story behind this person or that person and you’re able to pull that out and pull that and shine a light on that uniqueness you know  and it’s like I-

Nick: Yeah

TJ: I am kinda fumbling with the words and everything – 

Nick: No, no that’s so – yeah that’s so true. Where – so where for you , where do you fit into it? Right like if it’s – if it’s not about you, what’s your role in it?

TJ: In?

Nick: In the work, broadly 

TJ: I can- I can feel the energy. I see – I can see the stories like a lot of my work I connect with the customers. I can  – if they got a problem they reach out to me and so I sit with a lot of the people or with I talk with a lot of the people and I answer a lot of the calls and I walk people through if they have a hard time or whatever it might be and even if to find out that the product is right for them. So I have a lot of interaction with the customer which I appreciate so I can feel enough of what they’re saying to say “oh yes” or no or to feel what – what’s going on.

Nick: Yeah, this is- this is something I’ve been thinking about with my own work is that it’s hard for me to – I‘ve been trying to think about my work as creating space for people to – you know, basically explore their own story and, and on a deeper level then to trust themselves. You know and it’s like we don’t really, as a society, give each other space to do that. You know to explore our story and to wonder and to be asked questions and kind of lay the playing field open. And I’ve noticed in myself is that like and maybe this isn’t true for you but I’m just making this reflection on myself is that in saying that I like kinda’ve come to this place where I actually like slip into some level of self-abasement you know like “I’ve, I’ve nothing to do with this. This is like I basically don’t have a role in this” you know? Like “I’m not important in this at all” but I was talking with and shoutout to my good friend Zach who’s like “Well maybe you need to think of it more as holding space. ‘Cause its instead of like just creating the space it’s like I create the space and then hold it” so I – like I still have this role to play

TJ: Expand on that. What do you mean like “hold that space?”

Nick: Yeah

TJ: ‘Cause I think like there’s something – there’s something good with that

Nick: Yeah. I think there is 

TJ: Like expand on that
Nick: Yeah, yeah. And I’m still discovering it for myself too but like in creating the space it’s sort of like my only role is to- is to like – kinda set it on the table -set the conversation on the table and then I step back and it’s like I’m gone from it but actually that space needs to be held, and nurtured and cultivated right? Like in a conversation or in a relationship, if I just like set it there and step back and I’m not doing any work to you know help that person cultivate something within themselves or like create an atmosphere that’s comfortable and trusting then — then I’m not doing any work at all but like that work of holding that space and creating that trust I don’t know if that makes sense. But, so in some sense, it’s like this clarification for me of the role that I’m playing and like “ah I actually have a really vital role in the development of this story”. I don’t know if that

TJ: And is that within like maybe it’s even like using this podcast as an example it’s like holding this space, this is important, not knowing exactly where its gonna go but there’s a lot of opportunity right? There’s a lot of opportunity to share and put a platform and place with people that do have exciting stories that are doing exciting work and you’re holding – you’re making this kinda available to

Nick: Right, yeah it’s making it available. Really

TJ: Putting a spot – a little bit of a spotlight to say “Hey let’s have this conversation and have – explore “

Nick: Yeah. 

TJ: I don’t know — somethin

Nick: There’s, there’s an honesty piece to it, you know? And if we even wanna use the word vulnerability and I think, if – you know, it’s, it’s, it has to start somewhere and in so many of our conversations particularly when it comes to business development and entrepreneurship, we’re very like there’s such a veil of professionalism like “you can’t not be professional” and I’m kinda like I’ve bought into that for a long time and now I’m kinda like “but why?” I just wanna be me I just wanna be honest you know  – 

TJ: Right

Nick: And like and talk about you know be real with people so if I can do that for myself like and say like “hey I’m struggling with this” or “I’m like confused about this” or you know  “I’m terrible at this. I’m tryna get better” whatever it is, then that I think opens the door for you know other people to then be honest and there’s so much value in honesty. Especially when we’re talking about as a freelance person it’s like if there is not room to be honest, then I like pent it all up inside of myself and I start thinking “Oh nobody else is feeling this way where’s the next paycheck gonna come from? ” you know  and “I’m not as good as this as you know all these people and so I can’t call myself a you know, I can’t call myself a videographer cause look at all those people who are really good at it” and so then I just keep all that stuff inside and I think we do all that a lot of times, you know –

TJ: Right, right

Nick: We play this self-comparison game to other people and “oh I’m not that because they’re really good at that . No, you are that. Just be it and be honest about like how it is challenging

TJ: Being in the space of what is. Right? I mean it’s like not- not I mean obviously the comparison thing and judging also is like “oh look at that video”- I’m just using this example- “look at that video person maybe they this and that” but acknowledging “Ooh I’m judging, what is that all about ?” Why am I-What is it within me that I’m tryna to like – minimize someone else’s skillset” or raise up it’s like “oh they’re superior. Oh what’s going there? What’s you know what is. You know … Yeah I don’t know exactly – 

Nick: How do you get out of that?

TJ: How do I get out of what?

Nick: That game of self-comparison? How do you accept what is? 

TJ: Practice. 

Nick: Yeah

TJ: I think there’s – not, not kidding myself that it doesn’t go on. It does. I judge you know I’m an asshole sometimes and you know — but I know that on — that’s also not also where the place that I’m gonna be – it doesn’t feel good. I don’t wanna be there I don’t wanna be in that space. I’ve known – I know it’s isolating and it shrinks me down and it shrinks my mindset and my world and that’s not a place of where I wanna be it’s not where I wanna go. Right? And so, it’s like not pretending that it’s not there, it’s acknowledging “Oh yeah I have these tendencies. I can have these tendencies and I can still acknowledge that, you know, there’s an elephant in the room.” And minimize that stuff and it’s like “oh you don’t serve me. You gotta you know be in your place” type of thing and not – I don’t know it’s- I don’t know if that makes any sense but its also infur- what’s the word ? – infurior- No- but yeah but feeling inferior you know and it’s like that not measuring up like you said and it’s like that frees me into doing so much stuff also so it’s like this spectrum it’s like how do u live with that and it’s for me it hasn’t worked when I tried to minimize it and tryna like pretend it’s not there it’s like “oh, no it’s there” but it doesn’t work well so how it’s like can I see the goodness or how can I get past it or how can I – how do you- how would you answer that? Some kinda thing where it’s like

Nick: Yeah. I love that way of putting it because it’s – it is there and I feel like we a lot of times play this game where – right in especially – and I’ll speak to this self-comparison stuff because I do that a lot – I’m getting better about doing it less and less, and I think a lot of us do it but of you know comparing ourselves to – to other people and there’s a lot of factors that go into that a lot of times like I’m comparing my worst self to somebody’s best self , right – 

TJ: Right

Nick: ‘Cause they’re like they’re putting out their best work and so I’m looking that and then I’m comparing my worst work to that and so then I get in this mode of “God I’m terrible at this.”. And then I feel guilty about feeling that like “No, you shouldn’t feel that. Like don’t feel that” and then I’m trying to like push that away and sound like trying to pretend ,like you said, that it’s not there and then it’s like this whole spiral where all these different emotions and like thoughts, you know , are like coalescing together and it’s just there’s this whirlwind of like confusion – it’s just gross. 

TJ: Right

Nick: And so there is something about accepting it right like that those those sentiments of comparing myself to other people oh they’re there .And what if I’m not gonna get rid of them but what if my task is to learn to accept them and to love them even 

TJ: Right 

Nick: And like channel that energy into something that’s constructive and easier said than done, right? But-

TJ: My un- I have- my uncle, he always -wha – he ah- he has this saying where he says “we’re not tryna win a beauty contest.” And I think of like the perfectionism that we talked on –talked about the other day where it was like there that can – because I’m kind of a perfectionist – you know  like even its deep ingrained like these nail clippers I mean they- it took 35 years to develop these because they have to be perfect and I get that. But I also know personally I can take it to my level it’s like if I wait for perfection I can have a super high standard which I do you know and all there is I – I’m my worst critic to myself and it’s like that’s a tough place for me to be and it’s like I go there and I can beat myself up and all those kinda stuff and that’s not cool but I also know I’m not tryna win a beauty contest. The person that I’m comparing myself to, I’m- like you said, I’m comparing my insides to somebody else’s outside, or the work that they’re putting out versus the work that I’m not doing yet. Because it’s not measuring up but the difference is they put the work I mean they printed something or they – they made a product or they did something right I mean and- and I think that’s the important thing that I have to remember that I think you kinda touched on it’s like it’s doesn’t have to be-gonna have a high standard but it doesn’t need to be perfect or it’s like it’s important to keep moving forward. It’s important to keep putting work out, it’s important to keep going, and putting products in the market or printing or writing or whatever – whatever your art is right it’s important to keep doing it even if it’s not you know quote-unquote perfect

Nick: Yeah

TJ: it’s important to keep putting it out there because I think there’s a lotta lesson in the messiness of that whole process the messiness of like “ooh I put out 5 blogposts and now I have – I know how to you know see the structure of something” or “I’ve shot 6 videos and how I know more now than I did before” and “ooh look at that early work – that’s pretty bad” 

Nick: Yeah I-

TJ: But there’s something cool with that, right?

Nick: I- I love that this is a metaphor for just living life in general right like – 

TJ: Right

Nick: Yeah there’s this story my dad was telling me a couple of weeks ago about a a an art- an art professor who had two classes and he decided to try and experiment and he told the first class that they were gonna be judged based on the quality of their work and he told the second class that they were gonna be graded based on the quantity of their work 

TJ: Say that again?

Nick: So the first class he was gonna – he was gonna grade based on the quality of their work – 

TJ: Right

Nick: -and the second class he was gonna grade based on the quantity of their work. And so the first class sat down and focused-group it and brainstormed and drafted ideas and researched and figured out what was gonna be the best thing, the best one, best quality we can create. The second class just started making crap and-

TJ: Right, right
Nick: – and like – they did like it- it didn’t matter what they make because they just started making it. And by the end of the class, it was evident that that the second class was creating and innovating in a- in a far more fluid creative way than the first class was ‘cause they were learning through experience and they were just trying stuff and that experiential learning piece is I think – both are needed – but, right like , in some census, that experiential learning is way more valuable than, than just the head-learning you know  the like the ideas learning. ‘Cause you’re living it, you’re trying it, you’re feeling it. You know  like it’s not just this idea that lives up in the head but it’s like this you’re feeling it with your whole body, you’re experiencing it and I just love that that’s really true and, and in you know developing a business idea and entrepreneurship stuff but it’s just true in life to, to try things 

TJ: How do you practice that in your life? Do you think – how do you practice that with your storytelling with your videos and things like that?

Nick: Yeah 

TJ: ‘Cause I – your work is amazing right? I mean you go-

Nick: Thank you
TJ: – your– your sights, your stories – I mean you can feel the, the energy behind it – you can feel the people you can feel the stories and so you do that extremely well
Nick: Yeah, yeah thank you.
TJ: So it’s like how do you –

Nick: That’s a good question

TJ: How do you balance that right? I mean how do you balance that in like the – yeah

Nick: Yeah I think that’s that’s something I wanna think about more too but the first thing that comes to mind is something that I’ve been learning a lot lately. It’s like all these new layers of listening and this goes to the –

TJ: What? I’m just kidding – Bad joke

Nick: Nice perfect. That was-

TJ: That humor

Nick: – that was spot on. Yeah we’re gonna, we’re gonna encourage weird voices on this podcast more too so I gotta practice that. But I- all these like new layers of listening where you know  – for a lot of my life – I mean I’ve always valued listening. But it’s, it’s listening – there’s like one one mode of listening where it’s like “I’m here and you’re there and you are like speaking at me.”, words are coming at me and I’m filtering it through me. But then there’s like this other type of listening where in a sense it’s like I become you and as you’re speaking it’s like the words are coming out of my mouth if that- that’s kinda weird but, but this like really putting myself in your shoes – I don’t think we can ever fully do that you know  like we all bring our own experience in our own lenses to things but I think the act of trying to do that is really valuable and that’s something that I’ve really learned through experience and I try to put myself in these situations where like I don’t know what’s gonna happen and like look at this you know  look at this situation as an opportunity for me to like kinda step out of Nick’s skin for a minute –

TJ: Right

Nick: -You know  and, and like not have control in this situation and kinda go where the wind takes me – go where the story takes me and I think that’s that’s this other thing that I was talking about yesterday with this podcast is that I think a lot- like so much pain that we inflict on ourselves is unnecessary pain and it comes from this idea maybe that like we have a script right-

TJ: Right, a story 

Nick: -You know  it’s like – a story –and “oh I’m off-script right now I gotta get back to it you know  I’m not I’m not doing my script” when “ah, we don’t have a script” you know  like we’re just – the story is unfolding as we’re living- as it’s happening –

TJ: Yeah

Nick: – and we all – we are where we are right now and that’s – 

TJ: You can have stories, you can have goals, you can have – 

Nick: – Right, right it’s not exclusive to this –

TJ:  – ambitions and all that kinds of stuff it’s like you still need to do- take actions. You still need to do things every single day. You’d –

Nick: Absolutely 

TJ: – still need to be moving along that path but it’s like the story –drop story – 

Nick: Yeah

TJ: -the story we tell ourselves. The script that the blah blah blah blah.

Nick: Right. It’s like I keep coming back to this idea of maybe there’s not so much somebody to become as there is a becoming of somebody and that’s – that’s kinda rocked my world lately you know  this idea that our self is out there somewhere and we gotta go find it and I’m-

TJ: Right

Nick: -navigating through life and “Oh yeah I found it” “I found who I am” and then something happens and  “ugh –

TJ: “-wait that wasn’t me”
Nick: “-that wasn’t me”.  Yeah “Oh shoot, I gotta go over here and find it now”. When it’s like “No! You are you” and it’s sort of- it’s sort of this cliché statement but it’s kinda got a lot of depth to it 

TJ: Two quick- two quick questions on that –

Nick: Yeah

TJ: -just – I mean going down that path what got you to that point where you started exploring that stuff right? ‘Cause that’s not always something we just grow up to “Hey I wanna grow up to be a deep individual” or anything along those lines but and then also-

Nick: Yeah

TJ: -how does the hub – how is – how has the hub helped you get to that point because you’ve been here a while, you’ve done a lotta things here –

Nick: And actually this is a perfect segue because I – I’ve wanted to ask you about this too and maybe that’s kind of a, a good note to taper off on the –

TJ: What’s that?
Nick: The just about being at the hub
TJ: Right

Nick: You know. But yeah, was there more to your question or other than-
TJ: Well just like – okay as long as-

Nick: I think I got your – I think I got what you’re saying that-
TJ: – but like –

Nick: – I just wanted to make sure there wasn’t more missing 

TJ: – you know I just – I’m just curious – so what got you into that –

Nick: Yeah
TJ: – that mindset and then how did the hub helped and how has the hub helped –

Nick: Yeah

TJ: – that kind of deal, you know?

Nick: Yeah, yeah. I, I think it’s – I mean in one sense it’s how it’s been ingrained in me I’m just interested in story yeah you know, yeah I don’t know-
TJ: Right

Nick: I don’t quite know where that comes from 

TJ: Right

Nick: Yeah and I like to think this is like the optimistic, maybe ridiculous side of me but I like to think that’s we’re all interested in story you know  and it’s just like a fundamental human thing. Why do people go to the movies? You know? Why do people listen to music? Why do- why do people – less and less people read books but you know. Why – why yeah- a lot of these things – everything is a story – everything. Is like – my – one of my new favorite things to do is go on walks down the alleyway especially at midnight. I haven’t died yet so nobody like take this advice and then say it was from me. This is not advice –
TJ: And being like – I think – even like in a dark alley or alley at midnight is like being able to pause in that moment –

Nick: Yes

TJ: -and sort of say “Okay. What’s going on?”

Nick: Yes! There’s so many stories, right? Like you walk down – it’s like this whole other world that you don’t normally see. Who goes through the alleyways, we don’t do that very often –
TJ: Nick does 

Nick: – Nick does. Yeah so be careful if you do. But right there you see how people arrange their backyards and you see what they’re throwing out and you see-

TJ: Right

Nick: -you know all these little details that you don’t see from the front of the house and it’s quiet and it’s a little bit isolated and there’s basically no traffic you know and like that- all those stories are there and the stories- every-everything is a story and just looking at it that way kinda opens the door to, to this much broader story that all these micro stories are a part of-
TJ: Right 

Nick: – like the way that I’m living is part of the ecosystem around me yeah and I think-

TJ: I-

Nick: – oh go ahead.
TJ: No, I was just thinking of a similar type of story where I take like- I have my kids and at their birthdays we’ve had cousins come over and things like that and a lotta times we do nature walks and so we’ll go you know  wherever — wherever we can find something right? And that’s like we have – there’s and ages have always ranged from young to older and all that kinda stuff and it’s on these nature walks I always like to stop at some point whether or like on a river or in the middle of the woods or something and just say “Ok. What does everybody see? Stop for a second. What does everybody see?”. “We’ll I see a tree” , “I see this” , “I see a mountain” , “ok let’s look closer.” . “Okay, look down by your shoe, what do you see? “ . “I see a rock” , whatever. “Ok now draw a little teeny inch square, in that little square what do you see. Ahh look even closer and then there’s little like – something little growing out of nothing right? And it’s just like keep doing deeper and deeper and deeper and it’s like one of my-

Nick: Ahh visualizing this as you’re speaking. This is good.

TJ: – Right? And I have a niece and she’s like “I didn’t know there was so much stuff there” you know  and it’s like – 

Nick: It’s in
TJ: -and like walking down the street and it’s um-

Nick: -Wow. I love that.

TJ: – right? And that- the the – when – what was it… Open streets –

Nick: Mmhmmm
TJ: And the booth – when we’re doing open streets – last year

Nick: Mmhmm

TJ: -and it was raining and all that kind of stuff. And the booth next to us they- they have environmental parents or something like those and then the lady was talking about she’s like “Do you know how much stuff you could eat that’s all around you right now?” and I’m like “tell me about it” ‘cause I totally love that stuff right I like go in the woods and like pick things off and just start eating them and things  like that-

Nick: Yeah 

TJ: And so she’s like “Okay, look around. See that over there,you can eat it” and whatever. She’s like “even look down, look in the little crack here.” She’s like “this is like a little succulent and you can eat this”  It’s like “what?”

Nick: Right there on the sidewalk
TJ: Right right. So I don’t know kinda-

Nick: The- all those little things yeah-

TJ: -yeah, yeah

Nick: Yeah. It’s finding life in the details 

TJ: Right

Nick: Mmhmm
TJ: And I always get about that when you’re like talking about like walking down the alley and looking and just kinda like seeing “oh there’s so much story here. There’s so much life”. In the little- in those stories you know and I think I always take that back to you know Clip Different it’s like “There’s so much.”-

Nick: Mmhmm

TJ: There’s so much there. 

Nick: Mmhmm

TJ: There’s so much opportunity. There’s so many stories, there’s so much to be shared –

Nick: Yeah –
TJ: – You know and it’s

Nick: Right and I, I feel like yeah kind of on a on a closing note and I wanna end on you talking about this but impact hub you asked abou

TJ: Yeah 

Nick: and that is right- I think of – I really think of this place as a – it’s like a second family for me

TJ: It is

Nick: and that -That’s awesome that you can say that too because of that fact I think you know that that there is this attunement to story and people walk in here I think pretty attuned to their own story, we all have work and being more attuned to our own story but they’re also genuinely interested and attuned to other people’s story and then the story of how those come together you know and like this place is really a nexus I feel like where all these different stories intersect and create this like kind of firework story
TJ:I think an important piece with the hub in just my experience like I’m an introvert I left my own devices I can just work at my house and stay in my story and stay in the story of my life and all these kinda stuff – it was important for me and my experience with the hub that I came here “ok here’s something that’s going on that’s bigger than myself” here’s a bunch of people that have these this  entrepreneurial spirit, wanna do good in – you know  – in society – all that kinda stuff and I get that but still I can- I came here for quite a while and still just isolated just sat at my little spot and drank my coffee and didn’t really talk to anybody but Terry here you know, I don’t know, one day she was watering the plants we just started having a conversation and she’s like “Oh what do you do” and all these kind of- and that and sh- what I think is important here at the hub is the community and they- people welcoming and people have the hand out to welcome new people in – that’s what happened with me. Otherwise, I can go and co-work everywhere and all those kind of stuff and it’s like I I I’ve tried that right? But a difference for the hub for me is more, like you said, it’s a family, it’s a community, its like until when I was ready, there was people here welcoming and, and in kind and non-threatening and making space available to have these conversations and have curiosity about other people and it’s not just about me and my business and all those kinds of stuff  it’s like “Oh no, what are you doing?”

Nick: Mmhmm

TJ: “What kind of stuff” and I- you know – everybody that I’ve had interaction with here it’s all been like that it’s like “ooh” and it’s not always right away it’s sometimes after a few times of seeing somebody at the hub or it’s having an interaction or seeing them at an event or whatever it might be but sooner or later it’s like “ooh you know I’ve seen you a few times. What – tell me more” you know and all that kind of stuff and people are like that with me and that helped a lot ‘cause that’s not my nature 

Nick: Hmm

TJ: generally, and it’s just like I can just put my head down, I gotta pay my bills or whatever it might be and you know when it’s being a part of something bigger is is is is– it separates – it’s a different experience 

Nick: Yeah
TJ: And I appreciate that. I appreciate the people here you know being so welcoming 

Nick: Mmhmm

TJ: And you know I think that’s an important part.

Nick: Yeah yeah yeah. It’s changed my life. Yeah, for sure. Well cool! Thanks for coming on this is – this is – I feel that- this good energy 

TJ: Yeah

Nick: Yeah. Thank you for bringing your energy to this

TJ: Thank you 

Nick: Yeah. I’m pretty excited to see this energy to the hub

TJ: Thank you to the hub. So yeah.

Nick: Well cool. I just- I wanna give a shoutout to our producer Cornelius we’ll we’ll talk more about Cornelius in the coming episodes but a lot of this started with conversations with Cornelius who is the goofiest person anybody will ever meet. So on that note, we’re gonna, we’re gonna end things here. Thanks TJ.

TJ: Thank you, Nick.

Nick: And we’re gonna see where this develops. I think there’s a lotta room for expansion. Next episode might be completely different. I don’t even know. 

TJ: Probably will be different.

Nick: Probably will be different, which is good. We’re gonna celebrate difference. Yeah.

TJ: Yeah. Different, different is good

Nick: Yeah. But this is a great first one so..

TJ: High-five

Nick: High five, actually 

TJ: Nice.

Nick: Right, we’ll, we’ll see you next time.

TJ: Cool.